Thread: Refunds and Religion

Well Sharepro Go watch the Passion of Christ to get a very small example of what happened.

Scripture says Jesus body was beaten so badly to use a modern saying term Jesus looked likehamburger.A Romans Soldier would have faced Death for allowing some who was being crucified to live .The Romans Soldier would have face death also at the tomb where they were under orders not to allow Jesus body to be taken. Yet The stone was rolled away Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his death. God overcame death and the grave for to save the jewish people and all peoples.

Scripture Passage: Isaiah 53:1-12
This chapter contains one of the most wonderful passages of prophecy concerning the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. His life, death, burial, and resurrection are all foretold and the message of salvation is proclaimed.


Jesus suffered 39 whipping with cat of nine tails,his face hair pulled out , beaten ny roman guards they place a crown of thorns on Jesus head Thorns were around 1/2 to 1 inch long.Then forced to carry a Heavy cross then nailed to the cross wrist and feet ... When they came to break his legs because of the passover Jewish leader did not want men hanging on the cross. The romans saw Jesus was dead as the old testament say His bones will not be broken.The 2 other hanging on the cross had to have their bones broken to quiclen death.They check Jesus by spearing Jesus in the side and blood and water came out. The Romans soldier said Sure this was the son of God .How did Jesus Christ die? - ChristianAnswers.Net

Jesus said to the roman soldiers while on the cross Father forgiven them .The Romans soldier ask who is he talking to ? Who is his father ? At Jesus trial Jesus told Jewish leader when they ask who he was He said IAM the IAM Now Sharepro you know what that means and Jewish high priest rent their clothes ... Jesus is and was the messiah ....

All the emotional stories about Jesus 2000 years ago mean zero to me. He is one guy - and if he had blood - then he was mortal. God to me is not mortal. My God is not a man, nor does he have a physical body. Like air that is everywhere, my God is immaterial and the creator of all reality. I don't condemn others for what they believe in - but I am highly critical of those who claim to have an opinion about something 2,000 years ago. Specifically people who don't know the language, have never visited the land, and don't know a damn thing about history. You see, if you learn a language, you learn the mentality - and mentality and language are very relative to the current events.

Honestly, I don't believe what I read in the newspapers or films about things that occurred 2000 years ago - unless it's backed up by archelogical and other facts. Nothing you have on this earth can back up one of your stories about Jesus. Sure, you have your "Gospel" that was written hundreds of years after his death. That is a historical fact.

You see, with todays media - everybody has a f'n opnion about everything. Even shit that did or didn't happen 500 years ago. So did Columbus or Amergio Vespucci find America? The answer depends on who you ask - what they read - and of course how emotional they are about it.

Fact is, you cite a film made by anti-semetic people (Mel Gibson) who is on record (during a drunk driven arrest) claiming that the jews are the cause of all problems in the world. Here, this article includes the arresting officers comments.

So Mel gets arrested (for the 50th time) for drunk driving (which obviously is also blamed on the Jews) and screams at a gentile cop that the Jews are the reason for all wars in the world. Did I mention the married man was earlier at a bar with a couple of women. So this adultry commiting drunk driver has an opinion? Btw, his father Hutson Gibson was a known anti-semite who denies the f'n holocaust. Well, my earliest memories of my great grandmother having a numbered tatoo'd on her wrist (as most of the holocaust victims we're) and a large portion of Israeli elderly people (who during WWII we're only kids) have the same tatoo - and this guy denies it - yet wants us to believe his opnion about what happened (..or not) 2000 years ago?

Dude, your using the wrong evidence with me, and you will not convince me. Your fed off of other peoples propoganda and obviously are not smart enough to ask the right questions and investigate them for yourself. I read your book and it was less than impressive - only because its 100% words.

Seriously, this is less than comical to have such a conversation with me.

Let me ask you this. Do you know where your family was from 500 years ago? DNA has proven that the Jews all contain a special gene. We are not just combined by religion, but by phisiological makeup. The Cohen family (3rd tribe of Israel known as Levi - hence, Moses's tribe) has 3 extra dna genes that are in all Cohens only. But all Jews have the same genes.

Read this article relative to Jewish Genes from 3 days ago printed in the LA Times. No other people on this earth share the same gene make which brings me to my point. The Egyptians today are not the same gene make as the ancient Egyptians. Nor are the Chinese, Japanese, etc., etc. This is proven via DNA.

The reason why the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, Japanese, etc., etc are not the same people who currently live on the land. During ancient times, armies would come, conquer, and then literally move the entire population to a new location - forcing them to change their language and religion. Remember, a language represents a mentality, and religion equals your values. Moreover, both religion and language is what unites a people. So if France invaded Italy, the French king forces the locals to move to France (or to some other location conquered by the monarchy) - and he'd force you to learn French. If you spoke Italian, they'd kill you. If you prayed the wrong way, they kill you.

Well, Jewish people NEVER changed the language. We never changed our religion, and we stayed united. This is the reason that til this day, everybody hates us. We are the last standing ancient society that knows our roots. Again, the Chinese today are not the ancient Chinese from 2,000 years ago thanks to Ghenis Kahn.

Fact is, we are just over 4 million Jews in Israel, and about another 13 million worldwide. There are 6 billion people on this planet. I posted a youtube video of an American scholar who wrote a book about Israel and just watch it. It's f'n amazing to hear the guy articulate our accomplishments.

So I prefer to read our own Jewish history from our own books, and not be preached to by people who are not in the gene code. Fact is, your forefathers accepted your religion just because it sounded good or made sense to them. They accepted books that we're written several hundred years after Christ - and that was 2000 years ago when 99% of the world was illiterate. I find it interesting that Christians preach that if you don't accept Jesus, you go to hell.

I find that just as interesting as the Muslims believe that if you kill an infidel, instead of going to hell for murder, you get 72 virgins as if God is a pimp and heaven is an orgy. What the hell does somebody do with 72 virgins? Seriously - I've got a sense of humor - but some of these theology majors have outdone even me. Seems all these religions have an opinion. The muslim religion came about 600 years after Christ. Well, we Jews we're united long before you guys ever existed. The only difference is you guys don't have "known roots".

Fact is, the average American doesn't know where his family was from beyond 300 years ago. Well, America is less than 400 years old. The average Jew DOES know where his family was 400 years ago cause we are a united body. Even in captivity, we never left eachother. Your average "Christian" family in the US will kick his son out of the house at 17 or force him to pay rent. That is the "bond" the Christian feels with his kids. I'm sure that Christians think thats a good thing to teach responsibility to a kid, and that is fine. We Jews think totally differently. My mother wouldnt let me leave my house til I got married - and til this day Im expected to show up for meals. my other does my laundry and takes care of my kids. You see, in our way of life that is what is expected from parents, grandparents, etc. On Friday evenings, our house has between 30-40 people on average at the dinner table from brothers and sisters, in-laws, family and kids. When I got married, there we're over 750 people at my wedding. If you'd like, I can put up a video and pictures. My family is nothing special - as everybodys family in my neighborhood is the same.

So your way of life may be great for you, but we think differently.

Ask the average Christian kid who is smarter. Him or his father? The kid will explain to you how his father didn't live in the generation of computers, technology, or even have the opportunity to learn reading/writing, etc., etc. So obviously the kid is smarter.

Guess what? Ask the average Jewish kid the same question. He will tell you that his father is smarter. You see, we are simply different. That doesn't mean we're better - just different. But please don't preach to me, cause honestly, I don't want to be like the Christians - no more than you don't want to be Jewish

Originally Posted by tremortime

Guys....

There are many debates and opinions and there are like 10s of thousands of "christian religions"

But if we look into the bible...which is all we need,a if you do not let your self be sidetracked or infuenced by society you will have a better understanding....

I have met quite a few big mouthed, righteous people ho have some fancy degree in theology.....yet it is still difficult to understand that jesus died on a torture stake or a "stauros" in greek.....you nwill see every one claiming he died on a cross....which is not true,if you actlly understand the purpose of a torture stake you will understand why the cross was ineffective.....read Deuteronomy:21-22.23 you will see the law states that al who are to be put to death by law willl be put on a torture stake.....this is in many b=ible translations...and my native greek tongue......and yes i know the old testament is in hebrew....

Also there is talk of removing gods name ..."Jehovah" from the bile.....CRAZY how can we preach and teach and draw close to god with out knowing him personally

This is where the hebrew version is very different than the gentile version. Moses originally asked God what his name was. He literally said "Who should I tell them released them from Egypt" and God's answer was "I will be who I am". At first glance, God didn't directly answer the question of his name. On 2nd glance, he clearly answered.

Names refer to spiritual ingredients and the power of which something was done. Sometimes God is referred to as WAR & POWER and other times he's referred to as MERCY & COMPASSION. The name defines the power. We accept that we don't know God at the source, rather only know God by his actions. We accept that everything is from God and serves his purpose (which often conflicts with our own desires). According to the Hebrew testement, Moses wanted to know under what name we are leaving Egypt. Is it out of "mercy", "compassion", or for purpose of "war", etc, and/or to endure some other crazyness. God told Moses that we're leaving Egypt but will continue to endure slavery later on, yet that he would be with us wherever we go. (for us Jews, there is no old or new testement. There is just 5 books of Moses). So whether it was 40 years in the desert before initially coming to Israel or thousand of years thereafter, we Jews accept that God has his own plans, and that we are only left to accept them. For Jews, its a daily task.

Example: Your in traffic. Its really hot. Your frustrated cause you have a tight agenda to be somewhere. Your on your way home after a long day of work. Judiasm teaches to accept that the delay of getting home on this hot day is from God. For one to get pissed off is basically saying "Hey God, you don't know how to run your world.", or to the extreme "perhaps if I was god, there's no way I'd be delayed". So getting pissed off literally is translated as not accepting god or his way. Either God is or is not. If he is, then he is in control of everything. Judiasm teaches that like "air", god is not seen (at the pure form) - yet is everywhere - and very much in control of everything. Without God, nothing has life or existance.

There is the old "Zen Master" story for gentiles that your probably all familiar with that reads about a boy who wins a race horse. They tell the Zen Master how well the boy did and how he won the race and are suprised that he's not excited. They ask "wasnt this good". He just shrugs his shouldder to suggest "maybe".

One day the kid breaks his legs on the horse. Is that good or bad?

Well, at the hospital - the kid meets a girl who becomes his girlfriend. Good or bad?

The girlfriend gets pregnant - good or bad?
They get married - good or bad?
Marriage to divorce? Good or bad...?

The point is that Good and Bad is not something you measure over 24 hours or 30 days. If you believe scripture and prophesy, then you believe that things we're pre-defined. Otherwise, you believe you are the definer.

With that said - Christians believe god made the world and left it to man to deal with. We Jews believe God is very much a part of this world, and that 99% is pre-defined. We're tools to fulfill a higher purpose. We all come with special abilities, needs, desires, etc. Not everybody is alike. The big muscle man may think that his strength is what won a war. We Jews believe that God gave him the strength and phyiscal - spiritual make up.

Also there is talk of removing gods name ..."Jehovah" from the bile.....CRAZY how can we preach and teach and draw close to god with out knowing him personally

Now to answer your question - Judiasm doesn't pretend to know God at the source.

There is a Hebrew saying that states "If I knew him - then I was him"... Kind of Schizo if you think about it :)

So again, we only know the creator of the heavens and earth, moon, sun, stars, etc., by his actions. But God bless you my friend if you know him any better than we do

Originally Posted by Redhat7

The name of God in the Hebrew scriptures is YHWH. But nobody knows exactly how to pronounce it. Its ofter pronounced as 'Yahweh'. 'Jehovah' is the commonly accepted English translation of this name.

Actually, every Hebrew speaking person knows exactly how to pronounce the name. We don't use it only out of respect because again, names are often used to define people, places and things. For us Jews, God is not something you define. He doesn't eat, sleep, drink, get angry, or go up and down. The bible often talks about God getting angry - but his exterior action is not God at the source, just a definition of a specific virtue. Kind of hard to explain this in English. The bible often speaks of human body organs (eyes, ears, nose, mouth, etc) when talking about God, but in Hebrew - the definitions and meaning are very different than they are in English. We don't believe that God has a body or a picture that can be defined and limited. Once you put something into a frame or a body - it becomes defined and limited - as if to say God is this - but not that. For us, God is everything. God is REALITY.

@ Redhat7 - The name YA HA VEH (male form) or Ya Ha Vah (Female form) emcompasses the majority of God's referenced names.

The word YA HA VEH means in hebrew "It will be" for future tense. Because the redeemer (or messiah) has not been revealed, that is the power that runs this world is the power of "It will be" - which again is God defining "it will be" - otherwise, this world has no power to exist.

** Male and Female forms in Hebrew have special meaning. Male refers to "the influencer" and Female refers to "influenced". Since Male refers to the influnencer, it most often is the top level in the language.

Example: If you have an argument with somebody and you use the male form to describe your argument, then after you yell, scream and bitch - the argument is over.

But if the female word for argument is used - then it would suggest that the argument will have children, hence continue sometime later.

So understanding the language - requires a great knowledge of semantics and linguistics of Hebrew - which is one of the oldest still spoken languages on earth.

But not to confuse you, we Jews believe that the messiah will change this world. What I mean is women will get pregnant and have a child the same day. People will have ESP (ability to read thoughts), etc.., and use more than the 5% of their brains that are currently in use. So for us Jews, the redeemer is more about taking us Jews to a higher level.